Power, Patriarchy & Playing Games with Joanne Bagshaw & Adrienne Lawrence

Joanne Bagshaw, PhD, LCPC is an award-winning professor of psychology and women’s studies at Montgomery College. She is also an AASECT-certified sex therapist with a private practice in Maryland and she the author of "The Feminist Handbook: Practical Tools to Resist Sexism and Dismantle the Patriarchy“. She also writes the popular feminist blog, “The Third Wave,” for Psychology Today. Before specialising as a sex and relationship therapist, Joanne was a trauma therapist, working primarily with rape and sexual assault, intimate partner violence, and adults who were abused as children. Joanne brings her nearly two decades of experience as a therapist to help clients transform their relationships and lead happier and healthier lives. As an award-winning on-air commentator and a Women's Media Center Progressive Voice of 2018, Adrienne Lawrence does more than just talk. The former litigator empowers the everyday professional with her engaging on-air legal analysis and with candid advice in her book, “Staying in the Game: The Playbook for Beating Workplace Sexual Harassment,” a first-of-its-kind survival guide published by Penguin Random House’s TarcherPerigee on May 12, 2020. Staying in the Game has been heralded as “a must-read for any woman in any workplace”. Whenever she’s not writing about workplace sexual harassment issues or furiously tweeting about gender parity problems, Adrienne's engaging audiences while speaking in large forums like SXSW, coaching clients as part of Jennifer Brown Consulting, or breaking down trending legal issues for outlets such as The Young Turks and NPR. In today’s episode, Joanne and Adrienne talks to Monique about sexual harassment, power & healing while centring a Black woman's experience. Knowing how to handle sexual harassment when it happens increases efficiency!


[1:18] – Monique introduces her guests, Joanne Bagshaw & Adrienne Lawrence.


[1:51] – Tell us about who you are, what you do and where you’re from?

          • I’m Adrienne Lawrence, I’m from Los Angeles, California. I’m an attorney turned TV broadcaster and I wrote a book called staying in the game.
          • I’m Joanne Bagshaw, I’m from Long Island, New York. I’m a professor of Psychology and Women’s studies and a sexual relationship therapist and the author of the feminist handbook.


[3:11] – What got you to the point of writing the book about feminism, making sure women understand it’s not them but the patriarchy?

          • The telling story from my childhood that resonates today with feminism and helps lead me down the path of being a feminist is that I’m an adoptee. 
          • After eight years of practicing law, I wanted more for myself, I wanted to challenge myself. 


[11:53] –  What do you think is the impact of adoptions on kids?

          • That really depends on the adoptive parents and the birth parents on what kind of arrangement they make.


[16:06] – What do you think should be changed to be able to create better better systems?

          • The first step is to get more women in politics. 
          • A patriarchy is a male dominated system, and we have mostly men making these decisions.


[35:48] – So, this is for the both of you, what would be one thing that you wish women would change in themselves, in terms of interactions excluding women in order to improve the situation?

          • I would like more women to speak up to call people out. 
          • I would like to specifically call on white women to speak up.


[42:41] – Joanne talks about what feminism is all about.


[45:42] – What are we going to do to those people who’re telling us that we are making up everything in our mind?

          • My thought is that your thoughts of me have nothing to do with me.
          • So if you think I’m making things up in my mind, you tell yourself what you need to tell yourself to not address your behavior.


[54:06] – What does efficiency mean to you?

          • Not having to do everything myself.
          • Efficiency should be maximizing your time to focus on the things that are aligned with your goals.


[55:13] –  Which of the three things would you keep doing over and over again to get back to success?

          • I’m definitely still going to law school.
          • I’m probably gonna still get all of the schooling that I got. 
          • I think for me, trusting my intuition.
          • Moving off of Long Island earlier.
          • Maintaining my educational background.


If you think I’m making things up in my mind, you tell yourself what you need to tell yourself to not address your behavior.

Adrienne Lawrence

Efficiency means getting help.

Joanne Bagshaw


Joanne Bagshaw & Adrienne Lawrence
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